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| node: | Re: novy PanoramaMix a EQ v Konstant Labe |
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| parent: | novy PanoramaMix a EQ v Konstant Labe |
| owner: | Weaponized Cringe |
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| created: | 15.01.2021 - 16:19:02 |
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Pekny + pacia sa mi detailne tech specs, no chyba mi tam najhlavnejsia informacia - o panningu samotnom. Aky presne panning? Patrilo by sa ukazat krivky. Plot L a R amplitudy na Y osi, uhol pan knobu na X osi.
Ak pouzivate:
a) krivky, ktore sa snazia priblizit doslova panning/panorama efektu, tak ukazte krivky a hlavne sa tym imho pochvalte v popise, kedze to mate lepsie nez >90% konkurencie.
Ak pouzivate tiez jeden z "kompromisov":
b) Constant amplitude s -6dB v strede a linearne stisovanie / zhlasnovanie na kazdu stranu. Tejto feature sa nehovori panning ale balance.
c) Constant power s -3dB v strede.
d) Quadratic / cos^2(x) + sin^2(x)
, tak pls spomente, ze ktory z nich pouzivate + ukazte graf kriviek... Rozni ludia maju (ne)radi rozne panning curves, tak nech vedia do coho idu.
Su medzi nimi obrovske rozdiely.
Oficialne ma panning feature vytvorit iluziu posunu z lava do prava na "sound stage". A z lava do prava po priamke, kym tie pseudo panning krivky maju v tomto ohlade rozne odchylky. V pripade b) sa to posuva dokonca doslova az po kruhu (ktoreho stred je posluchac)... lebo constant power => akoby constant distance... no to je v rozpore s definiciou, lebo pri pohybe po priamke sa ma vzdialenost menit.
Druha vec v com sa tieto pseudp panningy odlisuju od definicie je, ze pri true panningu, ak by si plynulo *linearne* (x stupnov za sekundu) krutil pan knobom z lava do prave, tak so zavretymi ocami by si mal vnimat rovnako *linearny* pohyb z lava do prava (y metrov za sekundu). Linearny v zmysle, ze x (deg/s) a y (m/s) budu konstantne.
Alebo este lepsie nekrutit rukou, ale mat to voltage controled a modulovat pilkou alebo trojuholnikom (tak plynule a linearne krutenie prstami neurobis) a pocuvat so zavretymi ocami ci je ten pohym rovnomerny a plynuly.
A zistis, ze pri b) c) d) proste nieje.
Pri niektorych krivkach ti ta iluzorna pozicia prebehne velmi rychlo cez stred, pri inych to je dlho prilepene na strany nez sa zacne hybat...
Ono ak by sme sa nebavili o panningu vramci mixing modulu, ale o nejakom VC Panning module pre pouzitie kdekolvek vramci patchu, tak tam mozu byt tie pseudo panning moznosti naopak vhodnejsie, kedze su matematicky ciste.
No ak ide o panning vramci mixingu, tak tam je fajn, ked sa tie krivky co najviac podobaju na tie empiricky namerane / psychoakusticke panning law curves... ovela lepsie sa s tym robi + obzvlast pri tak malych knoboch je vyhodou, ked je resolution rovnomerne rozlozena po celom rozsahu potaku.
este par citatov od Grahama Hintona:
The proper professional stereo pan law was defined by the BBC way back in the 1930s from empirical research and is neither -3dB in the centre (so called equal power) nor -6dB (linear crossfade). Mixer designers have heated arguments about whether it is actually -4dB or -4.5dB in the centre, but more important is the shape of the curve towards the extreme attenuation side.
The balance is very delicate and a 0.5dB error can produce a 25% position shift. I know this because I designed the Solid State Logic Programmable (read VC) Panpots for the BBC in the 80s. I also designed their Programmable Surround Joysticks for a Lucasfilm console and the laws for that are equally non-obvious.
Ak pouzivate:
a) krivky, ktore sa snazia priblizit doslova panning/panorama efektu, tak ukazte krivky a hlavne sa tym imho pochvalte v popise, kedze to mate lepsie nez >90% konkurencie.
Ak pouzivate tiez jeden z "kompromisov":
b) Constant amplitude s -6dB v strede a linearne stisovanie / zhlasnovanie na kazdu stranu. Tejto feature sa nehovori panning ale balance.
c) Constant power s -3dB v strede.
d) Quadratic / cos^2(x) + sin^2(x)
, tak pls spomente, ze ktory z nich pouzivate + ukazte graf kriviek... Rozni ludia maju (ne)radi rozne panning curves, tak nech vedia do coho idu.
Su medzi nimi obrovske rozdiely.
Oficialne ma panning feature vytvorit iluziu posunu z lava do prava na "sound stage". A z lava do prava po priamke, kym tie pseudo panning krivky maju v tomto ohlade rozne odchylky. V pripade b) sa to posuva dokonca doslova az po kruhu (ktoreho stred je posluchac)... lebo constant power => akoby constant distance... no to je v rozpore s definiciou, lebo pri pohybe po priamke sa ma vzdialenost menit.
Druha vec v com sa tieto pseudp panningy odlisuju od definicie je, ze pri true panningu, ak by si plynulo *linearne* (x stupnov za sekundu) krutil pan knobom z lava do prave, tak so zavretymi ocami by si mal vnimat rovnako *linearny* pohyb z lava do prava (y metrov za sekundu). Linearny v zmysle, ze x (deg/s) a y (m/s) budu konstantne.
Alebo este lepsie nekrutit rukou, ale mat to voltage controled a modulovat pilkou alebo trojuholnikom (tak plynule a linearne krutenie prstami neurobis) a pocuvat so zavretymi ocami ci je ten pohym rovnomerny a plynuly.
A zistis, ze pri b) c) d) proste nieje.
Pri niektorych krivkach ti ta iluzorna pozicia prebehne velmi rychlo cez stred, pri inych to je dlho prilepene na strany nez sa zacne hybat...
Ono ak by sme sa nebavili o panningu vramci mixing modulu, ale o nejakom VC Panning module pre pouzitie kdekolvek vramci patchu, tak tam mozu byt tie pseudo panning moznosti naopak vhodnejsie, kedze su matematicky ciste.
No ak ide o panning vramci mixingu, tak tam je fajn, ked sa tie krivky co najviac podobaju na tie empiricky namerane / psychoakusticke panning law curves... ovela lepsie sa s tym robi + obzvlast pri tak malych knoboch je vyhodou, ked je resolution rovnomerne rozlozena po celom rozsahu potaku.
este par citatov od Grahama Hintona:
The proper professional stereo pan law was defined by the BBC way back in the 1930s from empirical research and is neither -3dB in the centre (so called equal power) nor -6dB (linear crossfade). Mixer designers have heated arguments about whether it is actually -4dB or -4.5dB in the centre, but more important is the shape of the curve towards the extreme attenuation side.
The balance is very delicate and a 0.5dB error can produce a 25% position shift. I know this because I designed the Solid State Logic Programmable (read VC) Panpots for the BBC in the 80s. I also designed their Programmable Surround Joysticks for a Lucasfilm console and the laws for that are equally non-obvious.