Re[2]: podme vsetci deficitovat :: Something smarter than us is going to emerge


node:	Re[2]: podme vsetci deficitovat
template:	4
parent:	Re: podme vsetci deficitovat
owner:	stenlis
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created:	04.01.2012 - 15:02:50

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1) Precital som si tie clanky znova. Hovoria ze deficit je dobra vec a bodka. Nepolemizuju o tom, kedy je deficit zly a ci nahodou nie sme v tej situacia ked je zly.

2) Oh no! Preklepol som sa v jednom pismenku v jeho mene! Rychlo zapni CAPS LOCK a natri mi to!

3) Keynes hovoril ze v podstate je jedno ako stat zamestna ludi, hlavne ze budu nieco robit. Vid co sam o tom pise:

For a man who has been long unemployed some measure of labour, instead of involving disutility, may have a positive utility. If this is accepted, the above reasoning shows how “wasteful” loan expenditure[8] may nevertheless enrich the community on balance. Pyramid-building, earthquakes, even wars may serve to increase wealth, if the education of our statesmen on the principles of the classical economics stands in the way of anything better.

[bez cisla]) je jedno ci sa jedna o statne podniky, sukromne podniky, alebo mimozemske podniky. Ked nalievas peniaze do neefektivej ekonomiky, nedosiahnes rast.

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1) precitaj si to este raz. Krugman jasne pise, ze USA je v inej situacii ako Grecko.

2) ten "preklep" si spravil 7x

3) kazdy vydavok ma multiplikacny efekt. To vsak neznamena, ze podporoval plytvanie. Zapni zakladnu logiku chlape :)

Znova sa ohanas neefektivnou ekonomikou. Atakujes system (kvoli few bad apples) a manazmenty konkretnych firiem.

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3, lol

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Zapni zakladnu logiku chlape :)

Sorry, ale ak aspon trochu poznas ekonomicke teorie, mal si rozpoznat o com tu vlastne debatujeme. To co hovorim nie je nic nove:

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To rap video robili praviciari za jedinym cielom, aby vyzdvihli Hayeka (a ani sa tym netaja). Takze o objektivnosti nemoze byt rec :)

Nezapol si si zakladnu logiku. Keynes na jednoduchom vzorci ukazal, ze aj plytvanie ma svoj efekt, ALE TO NEZNAMENA, ZE ADVOKOVAL PLYTVANIE! omg ;)

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Nejde o rap video - ale o znamy problem medzi hayekovskym a keynesovskym pristupom.

A ty si zas necital Keynesa - ano, hovoril, ze aj plytvanie ma svoj efekt a navyse ale dost jasne vysvetlil, ze ak efektivne investicie statu nie su mozne, alebo politicky presaditelne, tak je treba pristupit k tym neefektivnym. Jeho priklad so zakopanim zlata tazko moze niekoho nechat na pochybach. Navyse uz som dvakrat napisal ze s tymto postupom suhlasim a mal plny zmysel v situacii USA v 30tych a 40tych rokoch.

Rozplyvas sa tu nad tym, ze som nespravne napisal jeho meno, a pritom vobec nevies co hovori.

navyse sa ti znovu zasekol caps lock - rob so sebou nieco

Dam ti jednu hadanku - preco Raeganovo rozhadzovanie v 80tych rokoch nemalo ziadny vyrazny pozitivny efekt?

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Pastol si ho, cim si u mna trochu klesol :)

Priklad nehovori o zlate ale o bankovkach a svojou interpretaciou zavadzas. Keynes tvrdil, ze zakopavanie (zovseobecnime na neefektivne investicie) je lepsie ako nic, ale nebolo by to rozumnym riesenim. Vytrhnutim extremneho prikladu z kontextu si u mna znova klesol :)

Nie je to len o tvojom 7x opakovanom preklepe, ale mas asi celkovo problem s menami. Reagan...

Sam si si odpovedal slovickom "rozhadzovanie".

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pockaj ak zakopem peniaze tak v podstate sporim lebo som odlozil spotrebu do buducnosti a ty to zovseobecnis na neefektivne investicie?

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Ako je to vytrhnute z kontextu? Povedal som ze podla Keynesa ak sa nedaju robit efektivne projekty, ma stat robit neefektivne projekty. Cuduj sa svete, presne to Keynes pise:

If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with banknotes, bury them at suitable depths in disused coalmines which are then filled up to the surface with town rubbish, and leave it to private enterprise on well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again (the right to do so being obtained, of course, by tendering for leases of the note-bearing territory), there need be no more unemployment and, with the help of the repercussions, the real income of the community, and its capital wealth also, would probably become a good deal greater than it actually is. It would, indeed, be more sensible to build houses and the like; but if there are political and practical difficulties in the way of this, the above would be better than nothing.

Dokazujes len ze nevies o com hovoris a ze nema zmysel sa dalej s tebou bavit.

Ak som nahodou este dostatocne neklesol v tvojich ociach, tak na zaver pridavam:

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I love the money fires! : ) popici video!

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would be better than nothing - malo by to vacsi efekt ako napchanie penazi do ponoziek. Nehovori: do it!

Ale ono netreba citat len jeden tolko nelogicky zneuzivany odsek :)

If — for whatever reason — the rate of interest cannot fall as fast as the marginal efficiency of capital would fall with a rate of accumulation corresponding to what the community would choose to save at a rate of interest equal to the marginal efficiency of capital in conditions of full employment, then even a diversion of the desire to hold wealth towards assets, which will in fact yield no economic fruits whatever, will increase economic well-being. In so far as millionaires find their satisfaction in building mighty mansions to contain their bodies when alive and pyramids to shelter them after death, or, repenting of their sins, erect cathedrals and endow monasteries or foreign missions, the day when abundance of capital will interfere with abundance of output may be postponed. “To dig holes in the ground,” paid for out of savings, will increase, not only employment, but the real national dividend of useful goods and services. It is not reasonable, however, that a sensible community should be content to remain dependent on such fortuitous and often wasteful mitigations when once we understand the influences upon which effective demand depends.

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dobre video>))

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Este by som doplnil

Ja nie som proti Keynesovym teoriam. Problem mam s ludmi, ktori ich prekrucaju a oblukom sa vyhybaju napr. Keynesovym postojom k neefektivnosti kapitalovych trhov:

It is rare, one is told, for an American to invest, as many Englishmen still do, 'for income'; and he will not readily purchase an investment except in the hope of capital appreciation. This is only another way of saying that, when he purchases an investment, the American is attaching his hopes, not so much to its prospective yield, as to a favourable change in the conventional basis of valuation, i.e. that he is, in the above sense, a speculator. Speculators may do no harm as bubbles on a steady stream of enterprise. But the position is serious when enterprise becomes the bubble on a whirlpool of speculation. When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done.

- General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money, by Keynes -