Re: I sincerely hope that I have convinced you, my friend :) :: Something smarter than us is going to emerge


node:	Re: I sincerely hope that I have convinced you, my friend :)
template:	4
parent:	I sincerely hope that I have convinced you, my friend :)
owner:	niekt0
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created:	11.12.2024 - 09:44:08
updated:	11.12.2024 - 09:44:35

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ABSOLUT
KYBERIA

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Neexistuje je nic ako blockhain prvej a druhe generacie.

PoW a PoS su uplne ine koncepty, kazdy ma nejake ine vlastnosti. PoW zerie energiu, PoS nie (resp. menej), ale zase neriesi overtake siete, ta uroven robustnosti je o rad inde.

Nehovorim ze PoS nemoze mat vo svete nejake svoje miesto, ale nahrada PoW to nie je.

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Samozrejme ze existuje nieco ako blockchain prvej a druhej generacie

Blockchainy prvej generacie nemaju smart kontrakty. Blockchainy druhej generacie ich maju.

Co sa overtakeu siete tyka, pri tom ako ma Solana nastaveny obranu proti Sibyl Attacks pomocou Byzatine Fault Tolerance je situacia priblizne takato:

* zloduch ktory ma 33% coinov moze viest zablokovat vznik konsenzu
* zloduch ktory ma 66% coinov moze pachat realnu zlobu (potvrdit double-spendy, verifikovat neplatne transakcie, prepisat predchadzajuci konsenzus atd.)

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Nie su to ziadne generacie, ked tak vrstvy. Nad btc si mozes postavit co chces, a previazat to, a budes to mat na solidnom zaklade.

Zasadny rozdiel u PoW a PoS a odolnosti siete je ten, ze zatial co u PoW pripadny utocnik ktory ziska vacsinu ma DOCASNU kontrolu nad sietou, a tu musi (draho) udrzovat, u PoS je to kontrola TRVALA, proste game over.

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utocnika myslis ako? ze by v POS skupil vacsinu coinov a potom by validaciu pokrivil zlymi umyslami? ci ako to myslis pls?

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Ano, ked utocnik ziska dostatocny podiel coinov, tak ovladne celu siet, navzdy.

(a podiel coinov sa da zvysovat rozne, napriklad aj tym ze pozatvaras velkych hodlerov...)

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to ano. a nie su v POS nejake mechanizmy proti tomu aby sa to stalo?

toto o tom pise ai, ze ciastocne su:
https://chatgpt.com/share/6759e14e-bf6c-800d-8ff4-0dae13575de8

co na to hovoris?

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Ze to je v principe neriesitelne, uz samotny BTC a PoW je brutalny hack, kedy problem byzantskych generalov "schovas" do casu, a vyhlasis konflikt realit po case za extremne nepravdepodobny.

V PoS je tento problem v principe neriesitelny, s tym ze existuju rozne sposoby ako obmedzit od akeho mnozstva to bude neriesitelne, pripadne nejak trochu zdvihnut hranicu, ale v momente ked mas dost, tak sa proti tomu v principe branit moc neda.

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toto je zaujimavy clanok, neriesi tento problem napr. u tej solany to, ze pouziva aj POS a aj POH?
https://medium.com/@poolofstake/the-byzantine-generals-problem-and-the-blockchains-e88a9aeabc11

"Immutable Ledger: The blockchain itself acts as a tamper-resistant ledger. Once a block is added to the chain, it’s challenging to alter previous blocks. This ensures that the history of transactions (decisions) is secure and transparent."

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a tie veci co o tom v tom linku vyssie pisal chatgpt,na to co hovoris? nepomoze to?

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nevyriesi to

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ani toto? solana ma aj POS aj Proof Of History:
https://medium.com/@kkabubakar15/understanding-solanas-proof-of-history-poh-8ea0467444ee

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Byzantine generals problem resolved by POH + Tower BFT (Byzantine Fault Tolerance)

Does POH implementation in solana blockchain solve the Byzantine generals problem?

chatgpt:
Yes, the implementation of Proof of History (PoH) in the Solana blockchain contributes to solving the Byzantine Generals Problem (BGP) in a novel way, but it does so in combination with other mechanisms in Solana's consensus protocol, such as Tower BFT (Byzantine Fault Tolerance).

Byzantine Generals Problem Recap

The BGP describes the challenge of achieving consensus in a distributed system with potentially malicious actors. The system must ensure that all honest participants agree on the same state, even if some participants act maliciously or fail.

How Proof of History Helps

PoH is not itself a consensus algorithm but a cryptographic clock that provides a verifiable sequence of events, effectively timestamping transactions before they enter the consensus process. Here’s how PoH contributes:

1. Linear Event Sequencing: PoH establishes a cryptographic record of time and order of events, ensuring that all nodes can agree on when and in what order events occurred without needing to constantly communicate with each other.

2. Reduced Communication Overhead: Traditional BFT consensus mechanisms require a lot of communication between nodes to establish agreement on the order of transactions. PoH minimizes this by pre-ordering transactions, reducing the complexity of the consensus process.

3. Efficient Leader Election: PoH enables Solana to assign leadership roles deterministically (based on time), which reduces the risk of conflict and optimizes the consensus process.

PoH + Tower BFT

While PoH provides a foundation for time and order, Solana uses Tower BFT for finalizing blocks. Tower BFT is a modified version of Practical Byzantine Fault Tolerance (PBFT) that leverages PoH to:

Finalize blocks more quickly and efficiently.

Resolve conflicts and ensure consensus even in the presence of malicious nodes.

This combination allows Solana to solve the Byzantine Generals Problem in a highly efficient manner while achieving high throughput and low latency.

In Summary

PoH does not directly solve the Byzantine Generals Problem by itself, but it significantly enhances the efficiency and scalability of Solana's consensus mechanism. By providing a reliable time and order framework, PoH reduces the computational and communication burdens associated with traditional BFT algorithms, enabling Solana's Tower BFT to address the Byzantine Generals Problem effectively.

https://chatgpt.com/share/6759eff5-efc8-800d-881c-ef3d1a59507f

Are there any other security risks for POS+POH blockchains like solana, other than the byzantine generals problem?
yes:
https://chatgpt.com/share/675a009c-9120-800d-bd65-72fe97dc9ffb

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"In essence, the question emerged from the need to address specific challenges related to trust and coordination in distributed contexts, providing a theoretical framework to explore resilient solutions to consensus problems in the presence of malicious agents or system failures."

https://medium.com/@poolofstake/the-byzantine-generals-problem-and-the-blockchains-e88a9aeabc11

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"Solana’s architecture revolves around its innovative consensus mechanism, Proof of History (PoH). Developed by Solana Labs, PoH serves as a cryptographic clock within the blockchain network, providing a decentralized and verifiable timestamping mechanism.

Proof of history (POH) What’s that?
Establishing an immutable and reliable record of transaction history is of utmost importance in traditional financial systems to maintain transparency and trust.

Early blockchain systems, such as Bitcoin and Ethereum, confidently relied on consensus mechanisms like Proof of Work (PoW) and Proof of Stake (PoS) to validate transactions and secure the network.

Proof of History (PoH) is an outstanding consensus mechanism developed by Anatoly Yakovenko, the brilliant founder of Solana Labs. PoH recognizes the critical importance of maintaining the order of events in a Blockchain network, and verifying this order is paramount for sustaining network integrity. PoH implements Verifiable Delay Function (VDF) to generate a timestamp for each block in the Blockchain, which guarantees that the order of events is precise and can be effortlessly verified.

Verifiable Delay Function (VDF) is an innovative cryptographic tool that efficiently introduces a time delay in computation while ensuring reliable verifiability of the output. VDFs offer a wide range of applications in blockchain consensus, randomness generation, and cryptographic protocols. Researchers are actively working towards improving the efficiency and security of VDFs to make them more practical for deployment in decentralized systems."

Leader Selection: Solana’s consensus algorithm, TowerBFT (Tower Byzantine Fault Tolerance), confidently employs PoH to meticulously select block producers or leaders.

https://medium.com/@kkabubakar15/understanding-solanas-proof-of-history-poh-8ea0467444ee

........

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"Safety is guaranteed because the process is deterministic, meaning it always produces the same results across all non-faulty nodes. The liveness guarantee is enabled by the view-change mechanism, which allows nodes to switch leaders if the current leader appears to be malicious or faulty."

https://ackee.xyz/solana/book/latest/chapter2/tower-bft/

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Is there anything stopping other cryptos from adopting POH and making their chains just as fast as Solana?
https://www.reddit.com/r/solana/comments/p9ctnk/is_there_anything_stopping_other_cryptos_from/

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Nad btc si mozes postavit co chces, a previazat to, a budes to mat na solidnom zaklade

teoreticky hej, ale vpraxi sa s turingovym strojom ktory vykona jednu zmenu stavu za cca 10 minut moc nedostanes

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kukni si pls (fakt v dobrom to myslim) trebarz tento clanok, sice je o crypte cardano (ada), ale v principe rovnako funguje aj solana ci eth 2.0. hlavne odsek:
Tri generácie blockchainu:
https://fumbi.network/sk/krypto-novinky/cardano-kryptomena-tretej-generacie/

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struktura a to ze sa bloky zapisuju (blockchain) je rovnaky. ale tie "generacie" su prave urcene tym rozdielom ako sa tie bloky overuju - ako sa "generuju" coiny(pow vs pos a poh) a aj v sirke funkcii a celkovej (aj energetickej) efektivite.

kukni si to pls, tu napr:

FÁZY VÝVOJA KRYPTOMIEN
https://kyberia.sk/id/9201998

alebo google

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Nie niesu.

To ze to niekto niekde napsie, neznamena ze je to pravda. Poznam PoW, poznam PoS, pohybujem sa v tomto svete... dlho. PoW a PoS nie su z hladiska robustnosti/bezpecnosti vobec ekvivalentne.

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a fakt super ze si tu a ze pises, ked sa tomu tak dlho venujes, uprimne, bez ironie

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niekto pise o roznych generaciach blockchainu a kryptomien, niekto spomina len ze tieto nove ako sol, funguju inak nez btc a ma aj ine vyuzitie.

hej, v pos je problem ze ked ma niekto vela coinov a zle umysly, moze krivit system. podla mna ale by to sposobilo jeho vylucenie komunitou. cize ak stakujem coiny s reputable validatorom, nepredpokladam ze taka situacia nastane, alebo je ta pravdepodobnost velmi mala.

a co hovoris na tu brutalnu uhlikovu stopu POW? da sa to podla teba znizit obnovitelnymi zdrojmi? lebo ekologicky dopad je v sucasnej zhorsujucej sa klimaticke krize stale podstatnejsia tema.

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ano ale to su take marketingove reci, aj bitcoin ma smart contracty, len sa moc nepouzivaju