Re[14]: trump day 7 :: Something smarter than us is going to emerge


node:	Re[14]: trump day 7
template:	4
parent:	Re[13]: trump day 7
owner:	eno
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created:	09.10.2020 - 14:06:59

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neviem co tym myslis ale pokial naznacujes ze ja som fasista tak si ma fakt pobavil.
(kedze oponujem trumpovmu stupencovi v tejto diskusii. trump ma btw podla mna dost naslapnute k fasizmu cize si uplne ze vedla)

cize mal by si trochu upratat pojmy

pomozem ti:

Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

na zaklade coho ti pripada moj koment fasisticky?

pokial narazas na ban kvoli hajeniu stupencov rasizmu, hate speech etc. tak je to podla mna adekvatne riesenie.

myslis ze ked napr FB zablokuje nejake rasisticke komentare alebo stranky je to fasizmus? :D

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No a teraz mi prezraď čo z tej tebou postnutej definície spĺňa konkrétne Trump.

Musim to repostnut lebo si tu obhryzam nechty pri tom, ako nas tu zachranujes pred touto pohromou a nedostava sa mi odpovede

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aby sme boli objektivny tak povedal som ze `trump ma btw podla mna dost naslapnute k fasizmu` cize nehovorim priamo ze je fasoun

kazdopadne tu si mozes nieco precitat:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumpism

-zopar poznamok:

forcible suppression of opposition
- Donald Trump complained again that not enough of his political enemies have been arrested – and said attorney general Bill Barr could find himself in “a sad situation” if he doesn’t start rounding them up.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-bill-barr-arrests-fox-news-clinton-obama-biden-obamagate-b885971.html

- utok na establishment - spochybnovanie demokracie - neodstupi ak prehra - nemoze prehrat lebo ak hej tak je to rigged

-form of far-right, authoritarian - sympatie k far right sa nedaju popriet. ohlad na jeho rasisticku retoriku

-kult osobnosti - republikanska party je prakticky trump - vsetci su z neho zosrati a stiahli chvosty a slepo ho nasleduju a papagajuju jeho klamstva

-ultranationalism - MAGA

-krestanstvo - presadzuje katacku agendu a ma taku retoriku - vid posledne `chcu vam zavret permanentne kostoly` (ja sa o vas postaram). nova supreme judge je ujebana katacka proti gayom a abortion atd https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/08/us/people-of-praise-amy-coney-barrett.html

atd. je toho kopa

tu je nejaky starsi clanok z 2016:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/12/10/9886152/donald-trump-fascism

kde este hovoria ze splna podmienky ale chyba tam jeden fragment a to
Fascism requires the rejection of democracy

co este nevedeli ako sa bude spravat teraz ohladom volieb - ved ich spochybnuje uz par mesiacov vyzera jak keby sa pripravoval odmietnut vysledok volieb

podla mna ho budu musiet z WH odniest v kazajke :D

kazdopadne myslim ze mozem s pokojom duse vyhlasit to co som povedal ze `trump ma btw podla mna dost naslapnute k fasizmu`

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Rozumiem, dakujem za zhrnutie, je tam urcite viacero validnych pointov, co sa smerovania tyka a v tom, ako je popisany Trumpizmus.

Osobne ale vidim, ze viacero z tych bodov je vylucne medialne nafuknutych a to je tym, ze urcite spektrum medii zhodilo masku a chova sa vyslovene ako opozicni kandidati v politickej kampani.

Prave najviac sa rozideme v tom vyjadreni k volbam. Pozeram tie videa, ktore tvrdia, ze Trump nechce odstupit, ale to jednoducho nikdy nepovedal a otazka ani nikdy nebola polozena: "Odstupite ked prehrate volby?" Odpoved: "Nie". Otazka bola: "Podstupite po volbach k zmierlivemu odovzdaniu moci?" (cize aj ked vyhra? wtf? nespecifikovane naschval, len aby sa to mohlo rozmazavat), odpoved: "Nie, mam pochybnosti k hlasovaniu postou."
A k tomu som sa nedavno vyjadroval v inej diskusii:
"Mate pravdu, ze Trump upozornoval na volbu prostrednictvom posty a niektore z tychto tvrdeni, ako to uz pri vela jeho vyhlaseniach byva, nemali vela substancie. Napriek tomu je ale rozdiel medzi dvoma sposobmi volby postou a to:
a.,posta vyziadana, pri obcanoch, ktory predpokladaju, ze sa nebudu moct zucastnit osobne, ale na svojej volbe si davaju zalezat a tato metoda je znacne spolahliva a
b.,zmena hlasovacieho rezimu z osobneho na vylucne postovy, kde by mali tieto obalky obdrzat vsetci obcania bez vyziadania - s touto metodou je ovela viac komplikacii: velky potencial na nedorucenie na spravnu adresu, stratenie vyplnenych a objem nespravne vyplnenych. Navyse je problem, ze toto na celostatnej urovni nie je overeny a osvedceny postup, ak sa nemylim, tak prave naopak, je to bezprecedentna situacia. V neposlednom rade na dovere nepridava ani vyvijajuca sa sprava od Project Veritas o kupovani hlasov touto metodou do senatnych volieb v prospech senatorky Omar ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWK56l2VaLY )"

Takze ja osobne som sa rozhodol vyhnut imigracii do US nie kvoli tomu, ze sa bojim jeho rezimu, ale prave naopak, mam strach kvoli jeho opozicii, pretoze ta teraz uplne zakopala Kaliforniu

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b) - odkedy je v mode mat utvoreny 'nazor' na detaily americkeho hlasovacieho systemu? kde na to chodis prosimta? je to priamo ako z dezinformacnej prirucky.

e: tak uz aj ja som expert! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_voting_in_the_United_States

Research shows that the availability of postal voting increases voter turnout.[6][5][7] It has been argued that postal voting has a greater risk of fraud than in-person voting, though there are relatively few known instances of such fraud,[8] with one database finding 491 cases of absentee ballot fraud from 2000 to 2012, a period in which billions of votes were cast.[9] Election offices rejected 67,000 ballots in the 2018 election[10] and 92,000 in the 2016 election[11] because mismatched signatures led officials to believe postal ballots had been forged.[12] If they had not been forged, voters were disenfranchised.[13] Processing large numbers of ballots and signature verifications accurately has numerous challenges other than fraud.[14][15][11][16]

As of July 2020, five states—Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah and Washington—hold elections almost entirely by mail.[17] Postal voting is an option in 33 states and the District of Columbia. Other states allow postal voting only in certain circumstances, though the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 has prompted further discussion about relaxing some of those restrictions. In the run up to the 2020 United States presidential election, repeatedly asserting that mail-in voting will result in widespread fraud, President Donald Trump has indicated that he will block necessary funding for the postal service that ensures such votes are processed securely[18] and on time.[19] In September 2020, the Homeland Security Department issued an intelligence bulletin asserting "Russia is likely to continue amplifying criticisms of vote-by-mail and shifting voting processes amidst the COVID-19 pandemic to undermine public trust in the electoral process."[20]

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Neviem, ci je to nejaka moda, mna to zaujima, pretoze ma zaujima US vo vseobecnosti. Vyjadrujes sa k Bcku a pises o absentee ballots, cize si v zlom bode. Takisto len potvrdzujes, ze to je bezprecendentna situacia na celostatnej urovni, takze neviem, co chces tymto prispevkom povedat.

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co sa tyka trumpovho komentu o odovzdani moci tak si to pravdepodobne nevidel cele
kedze ten reporter sa ho pytal ci zabezpeci pokojne odovzdanie moci ked prehra

-nato trump povedal v skratke ze
`uvidime co sa stane. musime sa zbavit hlasovacich listkov co pojdu postou(poznamka:vacsina demokratov sa chysta volit postou, republikani naopak osobne) ale uprimne, nebude ziadny trasfer, bude pokracovanie (poznamka:mojej vlady).

transcript:
press:
Right here, Mr. President, real quickly. Win, loser, draw in this election. Will you commit here today for a peaceful transfer of power after the election, either- Transferal of power after the election. And there has been rioting, there’s been rioting in many cities across this country, your so-called red and blue states. Will you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transferal of power after the election?

trump:
Well, we’re going to have to see what happens. You know that I’ve been complaining very strongly about the ballots. And the ballots are a disaster.

press:
I understand that but people are rioting. Do you commit to making sure that there’s a peaceful transferal of power?

trump:
We want to have… Get rid of the ballots and we’ll have a very peaceful… There won’t be a transfer frankly, there’ll be a continuation. The ballots are out of control. You know it, and you know who knows it better than anybody else? The Democrats know it better than anybody else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR8oIitE6mI&ab_channel=CNBCTelevision

nechapem inak preco jednoducho nemohol povedat nejaku klasicku `prezidentsku` hlasku typu: of course i honor our democratic priciples and in case of transition i guarantee it will happen in peaceful manner etc....

---
apropo project veritas - by som nepovazoval za doveryhodny zdroj, napr:

-three Harvard University scholars refer to Project Veritas as a "right-wing disinformation outfit"

-is known for producing deceptively edited videos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas

->samotny fox news ich debunkuje
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzFGVEEB0Yw&ab_channel=FOX9News%7CKMSP-TVMinneapolis-St.Paul

--
neviem co myslis tym ze `mam strach kvoli jeho opozicii, pretoze ta teraz uplne zakopala Kaliforniu`.
bol som tam a prislo mi to tam praveze super.
ale samozrejme je to aj vec lifestylu a hodnot. ak ti napr vadi ze maju legalnu travu, gay marriges, uznavaju liberalne hodnoty - tak chapem ze to nie je pre teba

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Mam dojem, ze sa tocime vo velmi podobnom frazovani ohladom toho rozhovoru s novinarmi. Ako som spominal, nepytali sa ho na prehru, ale na odovzdanie a to je len zbytocna zapalka. Mozes to rovnako otocit na toho novinara, preco sa ho pyta zavadzajuco. On na to zo svojho pohladu odpoveda, ze to vidi tak, ze vyhra, co je standardna retorika aj u nasich politikov (niektori su dokonca vecni vitazi :D )

Tak Veritas je zatial prvy, co s touto spravou prisiel a v tom videu su zabery od ludi, co maju nakradnute balloty, takze neviem co s tym teraz maju nejaki profaci z Hardvardu. Budeme mudrejsi, ked sa to zacne vysetrovat formalne samozrejme.

Ano, zil som vyse roka v Kali a nema to nic spolocne s hodnotami. S tym ako to tam vyzeralo som bol dokonale spokojny, takze si zbytocne domyslas. Narazam na novu vlnu opiod epidemic, ktora rastie od 2016, police management, obzvlast od poslednych riots, ale problemov tam je viac (obcas pozriem tohto chalana, ktory tam toci videa z SF a LA https://www.youtube.com/c/Michal%C5%A0opor/videos ) homelesness issues (tiez vidno u Michala) a klasika, taxation.

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& dik za tip na ten YT kanal, nemam teraz cas to pozerat ale niekedy kuknem co to je.

Np, taky Cech co tam nejaky cas zije. Robil predtym nejake motivacne videa na cvicenie, ale potom sa zacal zameriavat na to, ako sa tam menia tie mesta, lebo mu to udrelo do oci. Taky first hand reporting

-pri to rozhovore som dal trascript, kde sa ho pytal `win, looser , draw` - myslim ze nemozes povedat ze sa nepytal na prehru. ale dajme tomu ze to bola zapalka od novinara, kde sa nechal nachytat trump a ukazal svoj plan ako chce zmanipulovat volby a zabezpecit svoje kontinuum. ale mozes to nazvat aj standardna retorika nasich politikov, ked ho teda porovnavas s harabinom :)

ten veritas je zostrihany z viacerych videii, ako ukazoval fox a ako bolo v popise veritasu z wiki ze strihaju videa na manipulatciu a deziformacie- cize by som sa vobec nezaoberal takymi tvrdeniami kedze ten zdroj je zdiskreditovany...
a jasne nech to vysetria. ked zistia ze takto manipuluju informacie dufam ze keefy pojde do basy. dufam ze rozumies co myslim, priklad- nebudem sa bavit o nejakej teorii hadojasterov ked to rostats da na zem&vek. je to proste strata casu aj ked s tym akoze prisiel prvy

apropo kali - nemam nastudovane tie veci co pises, cize moze byt. kazdopadne myslel som ze ide o politiku - preto som sa pytal na legalny weed a gay meridz kedze to tusim riesi stat.
napr homeless myslim je federalny problem social security kedze polka z nich su psychiatricky pacienti len nemaju peniaze na liecbu tak skoncia na ulici. taxation, police atd co pises o tom neviem, ale pride mi to ako klasicke problemy v kazdom state

Ten Harabin uz je len posledna komicka instancia, ale kazdy kandidat sa primarne vyjadruje k vitazstvu.

Neviem kamo, pozri sa aj na toto, O'Keefe tie veci tiez adresuje. Jasne, ze to plati na obidve strany, ak to vyfabrikoval, tak by sa malo riesit to.

Co sa tyka toho, preco koncia na ulici, tak to nie je vobec take jednoduche. Z prvej ruky som zazil, ked spolubyvajuceho priatelka spadla do tvrdeho shitu, ze to nebola otazka penazi. Ona sa jednoducho vobec nechcela liecit, pretoze si zila vo svojich haluziach a sama radsej zostala na ulici, aj ked sme jej vsetci chceli pomoct. K tomu sa potom prida to, ze stanovanie na ulici sa zlegalizovalo a efekt uz uvidis napriklad u toho Sopora.

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no a teraz mi prezraď čo z tej tebou postnutej definície spĺňa konkrétne trump

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ty si ten trolko, pamatam si ta. skoda reci s tebou.
ale dam ti tip. pohni rozumom a verim na to prides. cus

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podľa mňa nemáš žiadny argument ale ja som trollko :)

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nechod mi sem s nejakymi jednoriadkovymi definiciami pls, riesilo sa to inde

ano, to byt 'trochu tvrdsi' a dat mu ban lebo je chudak tak mimo je mikrofasizmus, presne tam to zacina. nie je to adekvatne riesenie.

fb je asi najhorsi priklad ohladom tejto otazky, blokuje bradavky, torrenty, ale pritom je liahnou konspiracnych komunit.

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myslim ze je dolezite aby sa pouzivali spravne pojmy.
neviem aky mas problem s jednoriadkovou definiciu - kludne si k tomu dohladaj viac.

ale primarne: fasizmus - a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed

cize si asi myslel nieco ine. nie je to ziadny fasizmus
hovoris ze tam to zacina. skor by som povedal ze tam to konci :D
ked sa snazis eliminovat hate a rasizmus to je jedine spravne riesenie. ignorovat rasizmus a hate - tam zacina fasizmus - s tichym suhlasom. velmi zly pristup

priklad FB je najhorsi neviem preco. myslim ze blokuje kotlebarske a ine picoviny ak tam maju nejay hejt a rasizmus a podobne. je to praveze uplne jednoduchy vyborny priklad ako sa to ma robit - a nie je to ziadny fasizmus. (disclaimer na FB - cital som ze tam nechavaju vela shitu ale to nie je relevantne v tomto kontexte)

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tu sa mozes dovzdelat:
https://kyberia.sk/id/8791872
https://kyberia.sk/id/8787648
https://kyberia.sk/id/8304407

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ten arogantny ton si mozes odpustit, kedze ty si na mna zacal utocit a ja som sa len branil a ukazal ze si argumentacne mimo

co sa tyka tych roznych definicii, to je v poriadku o tom polemizovat ale ked pouzivas takto nejaky pojem a povies mi ze mam fasisticke sklony tak sa interpretuje jeho archetypalne vnimanie - tak ako som ti dal snipet zo slovnika

nie nejake alternativy typu mikofasizmus - co ani nie je v slovniku

cize mozes sa mi ospravedlnit a mozme to povazovat za uzavrete. nic v zlom ;)

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jemne by som nadhodil do eteru, ze pht si pravdepodobne robil picu

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nie, vobec som si nerobil picu, som dlhodobo voci banovaciemu brojeniu