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https://unherd.com/2020/10/covid-experts-there-is-another-way/

As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical, and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection.

Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice.

Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.

Fortunately, our understanding of the virus is growing. We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza.

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity.

The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection.

Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent PCR testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. When possible, they should meet family members outside rather than inside. A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals.

Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity.

Great Barrington, Massachusetts, 4th October 2020




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psycho
 psycho      06.10.2020 - 11:36:49 , level: 1, UP   NEW
ake su protiargumenty voci tomuto?

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ulkas
 ulkas      06.10.2020 - 13:58:02 , level: 2, UP   NEW
spisal som ich v mojom komente. netreba davat protiargumenty, ked ich argumenty nestoja na podlozenych datach, ale len tak vyplyvaju zo situacie az do bodu, ze sak ked to znie dobre (pre nas zdravych), tak to aj musi byt dobre pre vsetkych (aj tych chorych)

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psycho
 psycho      06.10.2020 - 15:14:36 , level: 3, UP   NEW
praveze tvoj prispevok som cital, ale ty nedavas protiargumenty, ty len hovoris ze sa mylia a nerozmyslaju bez toho aby si ich chapal

oni z mojho pohladu nenavrhuju riesenia, ale navrhuju smerovanie, ze namiesto limitovania infikovania na spodok podme radsej minimalizovat dopady infikovania

to ze ako to robit je uz druha tema, ktoru ma zmysel riesit az ked sa zhodneme ze to dava zmysel

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0x230FF1
 0x230FF1      06.10.2020 - 11:37:48 , level: 2, UP   NEW
really? 10.2020?

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psycho
 psycho      06.10.2020 - 11:40:01 , level: 3, UP   NEW
ake su?

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0x230FF1
 0x230FF1      06.10.2020 - 11:46:23 [1K] , level: 4, UP   NEW
preco ja mam z teba pocit ze od inych prilis casto vyzadujes robotu, ktoru si vies spravit sam? nechces to na sebe zmenit?

ale aby som ta naviedol:
1.dlhodobe (permanentne?) zdravotne potiaze (x-mesiacov) aj u ludi so slabym preibehom
2.bezpriznakovy siritelia (vs. "ti co maju priznaky nech su doma")
3.relativne vysoka smrtnost
4.moznost reinfikovania (nevylucene)
5.zahltenie nemocnic (bergamo, ny,...)

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psycho
 psycho      06.10.2020 - 12:03:33 , level: 5, UP   NEW
toto mi je jasne, ale oni su lekari cize tiez budu informovani, takze ich argument prebija tieto veci predpokladam

1. permanentne priznaky - herd immunity a vakcina to casom vyriesi
2. bezpriznakovy siritelia - herd immunity a vakcina to casom vyriesi
3. vysoka smrtnost - na to dali argument ze by zmenili taktiku ze nech sa nakazia mladi ludia radsej kde je nizka umrtnost, a rizikovi nech su izolovani, cize protiargument v tomto nevidim, toto je povodne tvrdenie na ktore oni reaguju
4. reinfikovanie nie je vylucene - uz z wordingu vidiet ze je reinfikovanie natolko zriedkave, ze sa vobec bavime o tom ci sa da vylucit, cize to ma malu vahu
5. zahltenie nemocnic - o tomto nemam info, ale uz som dlho nevidel ziadny clanok o zahltenej nemocnici, a smrtnost tiez klesla asi 10-nasobne oproti prvej vlne, cize dva dovody preco sa spolieham ze nemocnice to teraz zvladaju a +10% by zvladli

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0x230FF1
 0x230FF1      06.10.2020 - 13:03:25 (modif: 06.10.2020 - 13:20:48), level: 6, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
herd imunity to vyriesi tak, ze herd ziska zdravotne komplikacie? ok. seems legit.

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psycho
 psycho      06.10.2020 - 19:49:38 , level: 7, UP   NEW
nemal som cas, ale teraz uz mam, tak ti k tomu zareagujem, aj ked fakt asi strata casu

pokial mas epidemiu ktora ma taketo obrovske dosledky, tak nemozes ist raciom na sterilne dokonalu odpoved, lebo vo vysledku ta to sterilne premyslanie bude stat viac zivotov

musis balancovat rozne efekty, a aj otazka trvalych zdravotnych komplikacii vs herd immunity je otazka ze ake komplikacie, kolko percent ludi, kolko zivotov to usetri, atd, atd

celkovo v takto odbornej debate ist sudmi je proste nieco co vramci mediciny sa nerobi

zober si priklad z tunajsich medicinsky vzdelanych ids, ze ako vyzera protiargumentacia - vacsinou povedia ze co vsetko zohladnili ze za akych okolnosti by mohlo byt tvrdenie pravdive, preco veria ze to tak nie je, a kde predpokladaju ze je pravda

ty nemas vzdelanie na 99% vzhladom na lack of reasoning, nemas prax premyslat v takychto komplexnych veciach, ale sebavedomie mas jak traja zimanovia a styria himselfovia vynasobeni dvoma psychami

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psycho
 psycho      06.10.2020 - 15:18:27 , level: 7, UP   NEW
tenor.gif?itemid=10960163

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0x230FF1
 0x230FF1      06.10.2020 - 17:02:41 , level: 8, UP   NEW
Výsledky unikátnej spolupráce Belgicka a Holandska ohľadom long haulers: Iba 5% z 1005 pacientov uviedlo 6 mesiacov po ochorení C19, že necítia žiadne príznaky. 86% popisuje únavu, 59% dýchavičnosť, 36% tlak na hrudi, 35% bolesti hlavy, 40% bolesť svalov. 94% nebolo hospitalizovaných, ich priemerný vek bol 48 rokov, 86% z pacientov bolo pred infekciou v dobrom zdravotnom stave.
https://nltimes.nl/2020/10/03/nearly-covid-patients-still-suffer-symptoms-six-months-diagnosis?fbclid=IwAR3jt290wQ4XnHXhR4GM2w4tlXssaGx6pAYIGC5m9Jp6LvI1s4inTegeM2E

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psycho
 psycho      06.10.2020 - 19:44:04 (modif: 06.10.2020 - 19:44:58), level: 9, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
a potom este su retardovane moznosti ktore nie su argumenty:

e) preco ja mam z teba pocit ze od inych prilis casto vyzadujes robotu, ktoru si vies spravit sam?
f) zapracuj na sebe
g) really?
h) [napisanie 5 common knowledge bodov a predstieranie ze davas protiargumenty a tvarenie sa ze si mudry]
i) SU TO NACKOVIA !!)(#%()*&%@
j) nemam teraz cas, mam na mna krici ze zase nestihame do skolky

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0x230FF1
 0x230FF1      07.10.2020 - 07:30:43 , level: 10, UP   NEW
pridavam dalsi retardovany argument:
jak dilino tu pises ze nemas cas si veci dohladat sam a pritom tu minas mnozstvo casu na tieto tvoje 'proti prudu' elaboraty

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psycho
 psycho      07.10.2020 - 10:20:21 , level: 11, UP   NEW
vidim ze si nic neberies z toho co pisem, ale za to si sa zasekol do svojho sveta, tak budem si ta pamat, dovi

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psycho
 psycho      06.10.2020 - 19:40:22 (modif: 06.10.2020 - 19:43:45), level: 9, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
beriem to, a je to legit point
avsak ti tam lekari som pochopil ze nie su ziadni alt
tak predpokladam ze ked pripravovali navrh, tak zohladnili aj tieto veci, a je tam teda stanovisko k tomuto

mozno su neni legit, a v argumentoch sa tomuto vyhybaju
preto som sa pytal ci ma niekto protiargumenty
protiargument moze vyzerat vselijak, napr:
a) nezohladnili klucovu info, tym padom ich navrhy su nedomyslene
b) vyjadrili sa ze dosledky su zanedbatelne oproti dosledkom na spolocnost, a je to aj otazka moralky, podla mna to X co oni davaju ako dolezite, podla mna nie je zamenitelne za riziko tychto trvalych nasledkov
c) maju pravdu
d) pozri si referencie, vsetci maju podozrive backgroundy, neni to legit

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psycho
 psycho      06.10.2020 - 11:57:20 , level: 5, UP   NEW
50 ludi to tu denne sleduje, naco to budem sledovat aj ja?
ja sledujem ine temy a v tych sa kludne na mna mozes obratit a rad ti dam vycuc
ja to ale od teba nevyzadujem, zmaz sa ak mas pocit ze to robis pre mna, ja sa pytam ci niekto nevidel nejake protiargumenty, lebo nemam 2 hodiny teraz na googlenie do hlbky

predpokladam ze nejaky id himself alebo niekto to bude vediet relevantne vyvratit ako to spravil s tou ceskou tetou, alebo potvrdit
na takychto ludi sa spolieham a nemam pocit ze himselfovu robotu by som vedel spravit ja s takou doveryhodnostou ako on

(toto bola reakcia len k ad hominemu, k veci napisem zvlast nech sa nemiesaju nekonecne zabomysie hadky s obsahom)

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0x230FF1
 0x230FF1      06.10.2020 - 13:08:04 , level: 6, UP   NEW
zapracuj na sebe. nenapisal som to preto, lebo som to videl iba tu a teraz.


'maju pravdu. change my mind'

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psycho
 psycho      06.10.2020 - 15:17:07 , level: 7, UP   NEW
nehovor mi co mam robit

pytal som sa ci maju pravdu, netvrdim ze maju, cakam na odbornejsi nazor, nemam cas pozerat polhodinovy dokument na kazdu temu, niekoho to zaujima viac, a zaujima ma od takeho cloveka

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ulkas
 ulkas      06.10.2020 - 11:29:59 , level: 1, UP   NEW
v principe povedali len, len ze ti co na to mate (mladi a zdravi) zite naplno a neobmedzujte sa, a len sa pokusme izolovat tych ostatnych chudakov (stari ludia + cast "nezdravej" populacie).
ak by som to zobral do absolutoria, mokry sen kazdeho sulika, nechat si v krajine pobehovat len tych produktivnych ludi.


nepaci sa mi, ze vobec nepoukazuju na to, ako chcu docielit teda izolovanie tej casti populacie, ktoru chcu akoze chranit (termin ako limited staff rotations je pekna picovina). navyse, najprv povedia, ze na vedlajsie efekty trpi nepomerne viac ludi, a nasledne navrhnu, ze podme prave tych trpiacich vlastne karantenizovat a my si zime svoj zivot, samozrejme v zaujme ich vlastneho dobra.

kedze staty nevedia ani len teraz ochranit niektore uzkoprofilove skupiny (imobilni pacienti v jednej budove), tak neverim, ze hentake rozdelenie napriec populaciou s dovetkom, ze my zdravi sa podme nakazit, bude akokolvek fungovat.

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Macarat
 Macarat      06.10.2020 - 09:50:27 [1K] , level: 1, UP   NEW
Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health
Mám pocit, že o tomto sa u nás vôbec nehovorí, alebo som aspoň nezachytil. Napríklad moju babku zabila jarná izolácia - covid síce nedostala, ale dorazila ju samota, málo pohybu, nedostupnosť riadnej lekárskej starostlivosti. Spätne veľmi ľutujem, že sme ju v dobrej viere nenavštevovali a zakazovali jej chodiť medzi ľudí.

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blurec
 blurec      06.10.2020 - 09:20:39 , level: 1, UP   NEW
je to dlhe video a z vycucu, co som dostal tvrdia to, co stovky inych videi od jari. je toto video niecim specialne, ze ma narozdiel od tych predchadzajucich to pozriet?

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anything
 anything      06.10.2020 - 10:44:24 , level: 2, UP   NEW
nemam napozerane stovky videi od jari takze neviem odpovedat :)

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blurec
 blurec      06.10.2020 - 10:51:07 , level: 3, UP   NEW
jasne, takze ta zaujalo, ze ked si vezmeme do uvahy vsetky premenne, tak co najrychlejsie premorenie moze vyjst ako priaznivejsie riesenie?

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anything
 anything      06.10.2020 - 11:08:48 [1K] , level: 4, UP   NEW
neviem ci to tak moze vyjst, zaujimala ma polemika, ktora tu o tom vznikne, ak vznikne